Archive:Chat Meetings/Log 20080122

Openbravo community chat log - 22nd of January 2008 14.00 GMT

[16:23] <jordimas> Hello everyone
[16:24] <jordimas> If everyone is ready we can start this month community chat meeting
[16:24] <jordimas> The agenda for today is:
[16:24] <jordimas> * Localization front news (Jordi)
[16:24] <jordimas> * Comment the openbravo-commit list (Jordi)
[16:24] <jordimas> * Openbravo POS (Adrian)
[16:24] <jordimas> * Community contributions (Paolo)
[16:24] <jordimas> * SAF-T Implementation (Ricardo)
[16:24] <jordimas> * Questions and Answers (Everyone)
[16:24] <jordimas> * Setup date and issues to be follow up in next irc meeting (Jordi)
[16:24] <jordimas> Anyone wants to add an additional topic to the agenda?
[16:26] <[Zen]> guess not :)
[16:27] <jordimas> Guess not too :)
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[16:27] <jordimas> ** Localization
[16:27] <jordimas> Basically the most important news in the localization front are:
[16:27] <jordimas> * We have now a new test for the chart of accounts called test 3 that allows to test that the balance sheet is correctly built:
[16:27] <jordimas> http://wiki.openbravo.com/wiki/index.php/Chart_of_Accounts_Testing_Test_3
[16:27] <jordimas> * For Spain we have the new accounting Plan ready. It is extensevily documented at:
[16:27] <jordimas> http://wiki.openbravo.com/wiki/index.php/NIC
[16:27] <jordimas> http://wiki.openbravo.com/wiki/index.php/Importacion_PGC_2007_pymes
[16:27] <jordimas> Additionally Nicolás has done a post describing some more recent news:
[16:27] <jordimas> http://nicolasserrano.blogspot.com/2007/12/supporting-localization-of-openbravo.html
[16:27] <jordimas> And we keep working on adapting a new system for working with PO files
[16:29] * Igncio__ (n=sijdij@190.39.248.10) has joined #Openbravo
[16:29] <jordimas> Any question regarding localization issues?
[16:30] <rvalyi> what about the french localization. Are the 3 tests ok for it?
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[16:31] <pjuvara> We are still in the process of executing these three tests. We intend to complete by the end of this week.
[16:31] * vpj-cd (n=e-evolut@201.217.103.236) Quit (Client Quit)
[16:31] <[Zen]> will them be valid for any localization?
[16:31] <rvalyi> OK, cause, thx
[16:31] <rvalyi> err, simply thx
[16:32] <jordimas> [Zen]: yes, they are
[16:32] <pjuvara> Yes, The 3 tests are generic and apply to every localization. The process is to run a set of transaction and generate the accounting entries based on a specific chart of accounts and verify the results.
[16:33] <[Zen]> nice :) I'm starting to get into OB. Trying to conquer a few costumers here in Portugal. Both national and multinational organizations
[16:33] <jordimas> To complement Paolo comment: The test1 and test 2 verify that the initial client setup can be done correctly and test 3 verifies that balanced sheet is properly balanced.
[16:34] <[Zen]> I haven't found out info regarding this. Is it possible to have one installation of OB with two (or more) localizations? based on user login?
[16:34] <pjuvara> There are many ways of doing it. To mention a couple:
[16:35] <jordimas> FYI: the chart of account for Portugal it is already published: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=162271&package_id=254937
[16:35] <rvalyi> BTW, the 3 tests in iteslf is far from a guarranty it can be used in prod for accounting. A t least it's the case here in France were end customers show interrest to bridge ERP's with their existing cheap accounting software. Being able to use accunting in prod in France is ver tough for open source ERP's. But and setp forward is good.
[16:35] <rvalyi> err, any step forward is good
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[16:36] <pjuvara> You can create different clients with different charts of accounts; in this case the two localizations coexist in the system but are invisible to each other. Alternatively, you can create a single client with multiple organizations and use the multi-schema feature to create accounting entries according to multiple chart of accounts.
[16:36] * azabaleta (n=azabalet@100.Red-88-17-253.staticIP.rima-tde.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[16:36] <Igncio__> About chart of accounts, is openbravo oriented to use an standard chart of account or can we addapt Owr customer's Chart of accounts to the minimal requeriments of Openbravo?. If the answer is the second one,what are those minimal requeriments?
[16:37] <pjuvara> The latter approach is still a work in progress as the multi-schema capabilities is not implemented in the reports but it will be completed in 2.40,
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[16:38] <[Zen]> pjuvara: ok. so we can have an horizontal view of the organization :) nice
[16:38] <[Zen]> later this year then..
[16:38] <jordimas> 2.40 is currently scheduled before summer
[16:39] <[Zen]> somewere like may-june?
[16:39] <rvalyi> is 2.40 including a BPM engine and BI stuff as announced?
[16:39] <[Zen]> I'm asking because I have to make a presentation to a potential customer. It's a large hardware retail dealer with offices worldwide
[16:39] <pjuvara> [Igncio]: Openbravo supports both ways. In many countries the chart of account is legislated so you cannot modify it (this is not a product but a legal restriction). In other countries the legislation is looser and you can adapt the chart of accounts. For those situations, a good starting point is the US chart of accounts as it is very simple. This is well explained in Nicolas' blog that Jordi mentioned earlier.
[16:41] <pjuvara> rvalyi: 2.40 does not include a BPM engine but we have an active project for BI. We are still not 100% positive that we will be able to make it in time and if not we would like to descope the feature but keep the schedule. In any case, we are very optimistic about BI. For BPM, we hope to make it in the next release 2.50, but as you know, we publish a road map for one release at a time, so no commitments.
[16:42] <rvalyi> pjuvara: and in France for instance, some accounting software (not open source) can be certified against the law. So unfortunately in some companies having a certified accounting software is a requirement, that's sad for open source. Fortunately, not all companies will require that
[16:43] <[Zen]> you can always try to certificate OB
[16:43] <[Zen]> that would a asset
[16:43] <rvalyi> it's impossible for an open source software to get the certification as it only works for a given version that can't be modified (open source use to get modified often, that's actually its a main strength)
[16:44] <pjuvara> rvalyi: you are absolutely right both on your previous comment on the fact that test 3 cannot guarantee the production usage and the fact that some companies require a certification. We hope that in many cases, our partners could take up the role of leading the local certification as part of an implementation project.
[16:44] <Igncio__> Localization: Localization: Our Localization requires the development of an complex report that is built from sub-reports. When we test the report and the sub report on i-reports, it works OK.., but when thie report is compiled into Openbravo does not appear the subreport data, so the main report appears ok, but subreport appears blank. How can we know what are we doing wrong inserting this report in Openbravo?
[16:44] <jordimas> rvalyi: same issues apply also to Germany -> http://wiki.openbravo.com/wiki/index.php/Localization_German_Issues
[16:44] <rvalyi> pjuvara: I think part of the process is a rise of open source ERP's that will make it clear you can deal without the certification
[16:45] <rvalyi> then it will look less risky for decision makers
[16:45] * Ignacio____ (n=sijdij@190.39.248.10) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
[16:45] <[Zen]> Oracle did it with one specific version of operation system. Companies still have to stick with one version of the software for some time. But OB as is covers the needs of the most of the compnies. Accountingly speaking
[16:46] <pjuvara> Igncio: I would suggest to park your question to another time. We can help you debug reports either in a forum or in IRC outside of the community chat.
[16:46] <Igncio__> Pjuvara: Ok
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[16:48] <jordimas> Any other question regarding localization?
[16:48] <rvalyi> (wow 25 OB people...)
[16:49] <gabrielperez77> hi all of you
[16:49] <jordimas> Hello
[16:49] <[Zen]> heya Gabriel
[16:49] <gabrielperez77> From Venezuela greetings for OB team
[16:50] <jordimas> Thanks Grabiel
[16:50] <jordimas> Grabiel=Gabriel
[16:50] <gabrielperez77> ok. all rigth
[16:51] <jordimas> Ok let's go to the next subject then
[16:51] <jordimas> ** Comment on the openbravo-commit list
[16:51] <jordimas> We have created a new mailing list called "openbravo-commits" (See*[1] for details about subscription).
[16:51] <jordimas> Every commit to the repository generates an email showing who made the change, when they made it, what files and directories changed, and how they changed.
[16:51] <jordimas> Aside from the obvious technical benefits of peer review, very common in open source projects, commit emails help create a sense of community, because they establish a shared environment in which people can react to events (commits) that they know are visible to others as well.
[16:51] <jordimas> I'm sure this resource would be helpful to be people developing Openbravo or willing to follow its development closely.
[16:51] <jordimas> *[1] http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=162271
[16:53] <rvalyi> jordimas: and for sure: every feed you can export that refect the OB dynamic is a good proof of OB general dynamics. At Smile.fr we deeply apprciated all those feeds (incuding wiki ones)
[16:54] <rvalyi> BTW, an aggregator about OpenBravo. Still it's dedicated to the french market as it crawls more than 40 instutionnal french IT sites among others: http://www.google.fr/reader/view/feed/http%3A%2F%2Fpipes.yahoo.com%2Fpipes%2Fpipe.run%3F_id%3DeniV8VWY3BGdUUFMn0artA%26_render%3Drss#
[16:55] <rvalyi> I think I won't add the SVN feed inside as it would pollute it. It's best to have it separately, that's what I do usually at least
[16:56] <gorkaion> I'll suggest to have the commits list in html format as well as plain text like the actual.
[16:56] <rvalyi> sorry, the link was wrong: http://pipes.yahoo.com/pipes/pipe.run?_id=eniV8VWY3BGdUUFMn0artA&_render=rss
[16:57] <jordimas> Oh, it is cool to have a single source of info
[16:57] <pjuvara> rvalyi: thanks both links are quite cool.
[16:59] <jordimas> We are also putting together information about how to get registered to develop on Openbravo and we hope that the information will be ready in the next weeks
[16:59] <jordimas> Basically svn access + db identification
[16:59] <rvalyi> BTW, we also have feeds about TinyERP and Neogia. From a communication point of view, Open Bravo it clearly leading, fine (well at least you are using the money the VC putted behind OB)
[17:00] <jordimas> Well, we make a real effort to communicate everything that we do to others. Things like the Planet or the main web site are just examples. We are try to listen to what people says.
[17:01] <jordimas> Communication I believe is key to boost contributions. Specially in a project that was started by a small team of people in a single location
[17:02] <rvalyi> jordimas: I believe it too. And OB is doing great here. Still, achitecture modularity is also a key point to enable external contributions. Could be better here...
[17:03] <pjuvara> This is a great introduction to the next topic on the agenda: community contributions.
[17:03] <jordimas> ok
[17:04] <pjuvara> We believe that with 2.35 and 2.35 MP1 we have made great strides in enabling community contributions.
[17:04] <rvalyi> in which ways, (if that's not too long)?
[17:04] <pjuvara> I would like to take this opportunity to remind everybody in the community that we welcome any contribution you might have, both in terms of bug fixes and in terms of additional functionality.
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[17:06] * [Zen] (n=not@62.169.114.112.rev.optimus.pt) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
[17:06] <pjuvara> rvalyi: we now have a development environment that enables distributed development. Additional capabilities can be now developed by community members and packaged and independently shipped.
[17:06] <iarwain> 15:56:12 < gorkaion> I'll suggest to have the commits list in html format as well as plain text like the actual. → Many people has asked for this. Should we create another ML?
[17:06] * valfreixo is now known as [Zen]
[17:06] <pjuvara> We can then merge them at deployment time when they become part of the distribution.
[17:07] <rvalyi> pjuvara: how can one make sure pg/SQL fonctionnal code is properly encapsulated among the contributions as it's not object oriented?
[17:07] <pjuvara> With 2.40, we will continue to make progress in this area, declaring dependencies between modules and easing the installation of packages.
[17:07] <rvalyi> nice to hear
[17:09] <rvalyi> pjuvara: IMHO OB seems to have both th capacity and the wish to achieve that. TinyERP sumply has it alreadu. Still, in the J2EE world I think other ERP's either can't, either don't even see that issue...
[17:09] <pjuvara> While there are still many areas of improvements, we start receiving successful contributions and we would like to grow this trend. We will shortly publish best practices documentation that will explain how to deal with proper code isolation and how to design to minimize code conflicts.
[17:10] <pjuvara> Additionally, we have setup a dedicated team within Openbravo development that will provide assistance to community members that wish to contribute to the project.
[17:11] <pjuvara> In summary, this is a great time to start a community project and to contribute to Openbravo. If you need help, just send an email to <collaborate at openbravo dot com>
[17:13] <jordimas> We also keep a list of on-going community contributions -> http://wiki.openbravo.com/wiki/index.php/Community_Projects (on top of the localizations)
[17:13] <jordimas> If nobody has any question we can talk about Openbravo POS
[17:15] <gabrielperez77> no question! Reading and learning too much
[17:15] <jordimas> ok
[17:15] <jordimas> ** About Openbravo POS
[17:15] <jordimas> I would like to comment that there is a roadmap available that covers the next major release:
[17:15] <jordimas> http://wiki.openbravo.com/wiki/index.php/Openbravo_POS_roadmap
[17:15] <jordimas> And also we have opened a documentation section:
[17:15] <jordimas> http://wiki.openbravo.com/wiki/index.php/Recommended_OpenbravoPOS
[17:15] <jordimas> Adrian (_adrian), the main developer, is here just in case you want to ask more specific questions
[17:16] <jordimas> Basically we are working on it and we would update the roadmap soon with what is plan for the next releases
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[17:18] <jordimas> ok, if nobody has any question about Openbravo POS let's go to the next subject
[17:18] <Guest_801> Hello everyone, I am trying to configure the default date format as indicated in the Bitrock but I am getting an error
[17:18] <rvalyi> I think I heard people forked again from TinyPOS when it turned OBPos, any hint why they can't rather get involved in the OB synergy?
[17:19] <Guest_801> when I run the ant update.database command..
[17:20] <jordimas> Guest_801: if you can wait just 20 minutes, we are doing a community meeting. It would end up in 20 minutes or so. Thanks
[17:20] <jordimas> rvalyi: First news about this. Do you have any other information?
[17:20] <olabama> hi .. i have question about POS, is it any possibility to utilize barcode reader from POS into openbravo ERP?
[17:20] <Guest_801> Oh..lol I will listen for sure...:)
[17:20] <jordimas> We are keeping the same license and investing on the development. I see no reason for forking.
[17:20] <rvalyi> well a guy called aluchko (or something like that on the desert #tinyerp chat)
[17:21] <rvalyi> I'll investigate, I'll mail you if I find some clues, thanks
[17:21] <jordimas> olabama: Openbravo POS supports bar readers. See -> http://wiki.openbravo.com/wiki/index.php/Openbravo_POS_technical_specifications (hardware section)
[17:21] <adrian__> olabama: Yes you can use the barcode reader you have in Openbravo POS or Openbravo ERP
[17:22] <jordimas> rvvalyi: if you find more info send it to me (jmas at openbravo.com). I would talk to him to see if we can coordinate efforts. Openbravo POS is open to everyone that wishes to collaborate.
[17:23] <rvalyi> sure, as I said I'm nit very sure, talked to the guy some weeks ago? I think that's what he said. Nice to hear the licensing remained the same
[17:24] <jordimas> well, we wanted to introduce as many changes as possible to the project since it was working well already in the terms that was started
[17:24] <jordimas> as many = as few
[17:26] <jordimas> Any other question regarding Openbravo POS?
[17:26] <villin3> Is there any plans of extending the Openbravo POS support to smart cards instead of reading magnetic stripes?
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[17:26] <adrian__> Openbravo POS already suports magnetic cards
[17:27] <adrian__> not smart cards.
[17:27] <adrian__> But for sure there is needed to do progress in the support of payment gateways providers
[17:28] <villin3> But currently you really cannot deploy a solution in europe if you don't have smartcard or payment GW integration
[17:28] <rvalyi> adrian__: how one can ensure payment with magnetic card is secure?
[17:28] <[Zen]> that's a stretch.. europe is a ver loong territory...
[17:30] <villin3> Long territory, but actually I was talking about deploying a new solution, magnetic stripes will be used still for a while
[17:30] <Guest_801> ping..
[17:30] <villin3> pong
[17:30] <adrian__> Yes, we want also to investigate to support electronic payment methods like that
[17:30] <villin3> Good
[17:31] <adrian__> rvalyi: The security for the payments with magnetic cards is provided by the communications protocol: https
[17:31] <adrian__> with the payment gateway provider
[17:31] <[Zen]> villin3: you can always use GSM payment terminals to complement the solution
[17:32] <rvalyi> OK, but what tells me I'm not hacking between were you enter your card code and the https?
[17:33] <[Zen]> you can use the POS to issue the ticket and the terminal for the payment itself
[17:33] <rvalyi> (sorry, total newby about card payement, just trying to understand)
[17:33] <jordimas> Anything else regarding Openbravo?
[17:33] <rvalyi> Zen: ok then
[17:33] <adrian__> Yes, you must trust the vendor you give the magnetic card. But that happens everywhere
[17:33] <villin3> [Zen] yes, but it the payment processing is not integrated it will not be accepted in our market
[17:33] <[Zen]> Sorry jordi.. going off topic..
[17:34] <Guest_801> Well... I was wondering when the new update will be available ?
[17:34] <rvalyi> jordimas: about other topics: any progress on the BPM side?
[17:34] <rvalyi> (again a strong issue against TinyERP)
[17:34] <villin3> [Zen] I think that we need to use payment terminal, but make OpenbravoPOS to talk with it
[17:35] <[Zen]> villin3: I know about two terminals.. brother and LG i think.. that have APIS.. with some coding they could integrate
[17:35] <[Zen]> you just need a webservice to register the payment and issue a "OK" back
[17:35] <adrian__> Guest_8001: We expect to release a new version of Openbravo POS by mid Febrery
[17:35] <jordimas> rvalyi: that something that I have not been following closely but according to Paolo "2.40 does not include a BPM engine but we have an active project for BI. We are still not 100% positive that we will be able to make it in time and if not we would like to descope the feature but keep the schedule. In any case, we are very optimistic about BI. For BPM, we hope to make it in the next release 2.50, but as you know, we publish a
[17:35] <jordimas> road map for one release at a time, so no commitments."
[17:35] <villin3> [Zen] This was the issue that I was asking :-)
[17:36] <[Zen]> ok ok
[17:38] <rvalyi> jordimas: thank you. In our opinion OB might still fit without BPM, but extensibilty looks rather tough then (ate least compared to TinyERP). So we are going to be very cautious before BPM gets integrated
[17:38] * pjuvara (n=pjuvara@83.230.226.52) Quit ("Leaving.")
[17:38] <rvalyi> on the other hand BI integration would be terrific
[17:40] <jordimas> We are aware that BI is important to many people. We are looking at the best way to integrate it. When we have more plans we will make them public. You can start a message thread in the Open Discussion forum if you want to start the dicussion now.
[17:41] <rvalyi> time for an other architecture related question? Is there a plan to have automatically all the data model exposed trhough web services such as with TinyERP? Currently it looks like some services do exist, but as for the others, you need to build sepecif ones everytime you need one. From a maintanability point of view, that's really tough...
[17:41] <rvalyi> suppose I make a new data structure in the AD, how can I have it exposed to webservices?
[17:42] <[Zen]> rvalyi: i wished that everyone that develop a service could return it to the community. In a few months everything would be covered as well
[17:42] <rvalyi> Zen: that would never scale up
[17:42] <jordimas> rvalyi: I do not know. Paolo is the best person to answer that. He had to leave because personal reasons. If you open a message in the developer's forums he will answer you there
[17:42] <[Zen]> but it would be easyer to start from an existing instead of starting from scratch
[17:43] <rvalyi> then you would have a ton of bloated code comparable to the pg/pl/SQL OB already have. I don't think that can be maintained. I think we need a plateform level solution
[17:43] <rvalyi> ok, we could discuss that on the forum then, thank you anyway
[17:44] <jordimas> ok, no problem
[17:44] <[Zen]> :)
[17:44] <jordimas> Any other question related to Openbravo POS?
[17:45] <rvalyi> (how sorry, didn't realsize it was still about POS officially, wasn't what you said BTW)
[17:45] <jordimas> No problem
[17:45] <jordimas> Before going to questions and answers
[17:45] <jordimas> I want to comment on the last point on the agenda
[17:46] <jordimas> ** SAF-T Implementation (Ricardo)
[17:46] <jordimas> Ricard was asking for the SAT-implementation. There is already this message in the forums:
[17:46] <jordimas> http://forge.openbravo.com/plugins/espforum/view.php?group_id=100&forumid=549512&topicid=4645157
[17:46] <jordimas> We are looking into that. Paolo will answer the message soon.
[17:46] <[Zen]> ok
[17:46] <[Zen]> I'm ricardo
[17:46] <jordimas> Hi Ricardo. This issue just come under our radar today and we did not have the time to look into this and prepare an answer
[17:46] <jordimas> but we will do soon
[17:47] <[Zen]> we're looking into it
[17:47] <[Zen]> and if you need any help regarding this issue we're eady to assign our resources and contribute with the code back
[17:47] <jordimas> I asked Paolo to look into the message and to please give you an answer when it is possible
[17:47] <jordimas> that is good news
[17:48] <jordimas> Let's see how we can coordinate
[17:48] <[Zen]> I'll wait for paolo message and i'll e-mail him afterwards
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[17:48] <jordimas> ok, do you have an email? We will answer you in the forum but just in case we have to contact you
[17:50] <[Zen]> valfreixo at angulosolido dot pt
[17:50] <jordimas> thanks
[17:50] <[Zen]> no prob
[17:50] <jordimas> let's keep talking about this in the forums
[17:50] <jordimas> ok
[17:50] <jordimas> We are almost finish I think
[17:50] <jordimas> Any general question or comment?
[17:50] <rvalyi> question: OfBiz (Neogia or Opentaps) claim their acrichtecture is good cause they don't have bloated pl/pg/SQL legacy code like OB or Compiere. On the other hand, they don't have such an Application Dictionnary. Anyone would like to develop in this to defend the OB choice?
[17:52] <jordimas> OfBiz has a good architecture that is true, but that's is not the only point when evaluating a software solution. If you post that specific question on the Development forum we will take it from there
[17:53] <rvalyi> ( I tend to perfer OB for others reason, like community dynamic, but from an architectural poin of view I should say I don't know)
[17:53] <rvalyi> ok then, thx
[17:53] <jordimas> We know that to face the future we need a better architecture. We will keep working on enhancing OB 2.x branch but also in a Openbravo Green that has a more modern architecture
[17:53] <rvalyi> BTW, I don't think OfBiz architecture is as good as the TinyERP one, but not having pl/pg/SQL at least is good
[17:54] <jordimas> ok
[17:54] <jordimas> I have to leave
[17:54] <jordimas> I would post a summary in the next hours
[17:54] <jordimas> Thanks for coming and participating
[17:54] <jordimas> We are scheduling the next chat in two months
[17:54] <[Zen]> thank you
[17:55] <jordimas> If you have any questions please use the forums or this channel anytime
[17:55] <rvalyi> yeah. I've been half convinced by Green (not on the scripting side I should say (ORM scriptability), but what we found is that Green is not for today, so we must choose or not to go with OB as it as first...
[17:55] <rvalyi> thx!
[17:55] <jordimas> thanks!
[17:56] <gabrielperez77> very interesting the community meeting
[17:56] <gabrielperez77> i congratulate for your good comunication
[17:56] <jordimas> thanks gabriel

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